The Plot Podcast - Episode 12 - Year of the Domino

Subliminal Messaging as seen by Reuben Flagg in American Flagg issue 1. (c) Howard Chaykin

We take a look at the use of subliminal message in two classic 1980s pieces of science fiction - Howard Chaykin's American Flagg comic from 1983 and the original British pilot for Max Headroom from 1985. We discuss the history of each project, how subliminals were used in the plot and just ahead of their time both projects were and would fit right in today's culture in 2023.

Episode 118 - No Man Is An Island

Just another day in the Euclid Galaxy. No Man’s Sky screenshot.

We’re happy to welcome video game streamer Jason Plays (@jasonplaysnms) to discuss, among many topics, our mutual love of No Man’s Sky. We talk about its notorious debut in 2016, rebound in 2018 and how it continues to grow in 2023. We also look about the free update strategy employed by Sean Murray and Hello Games, is there a method to their updates and things like Expedition events and what the future holds for the game and studio.

The podcast was recorded on the same day that Microsoft announced their highly-anticipated exploration game Starfield was not coming out in the spring as many expected, but is now coming out in September 2023.

There’s also chat about some of the other games Jason has been playing recently, including Hogwarts Legacy and Atomic Heart, which I tout some smaller games on the Switch from the last year that I’ve been waiting years to play, the grifting game set in Revolutionary France Card Shark and Sports Story, the long-awaited sequel to Golf Story.

The show concludes with a discussion of terrestrial radio, which Jason worked in before becoming a full-time streamer. How did radio stations cope during lockdown and has the fight against things like podcasts, streaming music and satellite radio meant radio as we knew it in the 20th century will never be the same again?

Jason was a great guest, so we hope he’ll come back on the show in the future, maybe when Starfield debuts later this year.

The Plot Podcast - Episode 11 - Conquistador

Kang meets Merlin in Strange Tales 134, July 1965, by Stan Lee and Bob Powell. (c) 2023 Marvel Comics.

“The best laid schemes of mice and men…”

To tie-in to both Valentine’s Day and the upcoming Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania movie, the plan for the podcast was take a look at the wedding of Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne from Avengers 60. But that story, and the previous issue, the first appearance of Yellowjacket, present a lot of stuff that is very totally out-of-place for 2023 sensibilities. So, we called an audible.

Instead, we look at the long and convoluted history of Kang the Conqueror, which, as it turns out, doesn’t even start with his first appearance in Avengers 8. So, let’s talk about Kang, Rama-Tut, the Scarlet Centurion, Immortus, Ravonna, Nathaniel Richards, Doctor Doom, The Council of Cross-Time Kangs, The Time Variance Authority, Mobius M. Mobius and more. We also (for the second pod in a row) discuss Omniverse, the 1970s fanzine started by the late Mark Gruenwald and the article in issue two of that magazine devoted to all those characters, or is it just one character?

(Note: this only goes up to the late 1980s. We don’t talk about the Avengers story by Kurt Busiek and various others in the early 2000s or anything from the last few years after the characters became part of the MCU in the Loki TV show.

This is a great companion piece to the recent episode of The Winter Palace where we talked to Mark Waid about continuity in comics.

Episode 117 - Sunshine Superman

The March 1986 issue of Amazing Heroes, guest edited by Mark Waid.

After many years, I’m happy to say we have got Mark Waid (@markwaid) as a guest. And what better subject to discuss, fresh off his new book Dark Crisis - Big Bang, than the concept of continuity and the multiverse. Why has the idea of multiple worlds become so popular in the last decade or so, when it was something often thought as troublesome years earlier? We discuss how omnipresent it is now, in comics, movies and more. We also talk about the original Crisis in 1985, including Mark editing an issue of Amazing Heroes all about the post-Crisis landscape at DC following the series. There’s also talk about Hypertime and other attempts DC made to try and “simplify” continuity over the years and how things are going the other way now. There’s also a deep-dive on things like The Super Sons, The Inferior Five, Cancelled Comics Cavalcade and more. We also discuss Mark’s current books at DC, including Batman-Superman World’s Finest, Batman vs Robin and the upcoming Shazam (don’t call him Captain Marvel).

It was great to talk to Mark after seeing him for a few years and almost 25 years I sold him his weekly comics when Mark lived on the East Coast. Hopefully, we can get him back on the show in the future for more deep dives into DC lore.

Episode 116 - It's a Family Affair # 4 - La Vie en Rose

The Natural Blonds, Ken Timbs and Pat Rose, with Chris Love (Bert Prentice) from WOW TV. in 1987.

It’s been a while, but this is episode number four of the It’s a Family Affair episode of the podcast. We’re very happy to welcome to the show for the first time, and hopefully not the last, veteran wrestler Pat Rose.

We go over a good chunk of Pat’s career, starting with Nick Gulas in Chattanooga in 1979, working most of the territories in the 1980s and then retiring in the mid 1990s.

Of particular note for us here on this pod is both his time in Southeastern and Continental, teaming with first his boyhood idol Mr. Wrestling II and later Randy Rose as the Rose Cousins and, more importantly, his time in the short-lived independent promotion World Organization Wrestling (WOW).

You’ve heard us talk about WOW here on the pod with Armstrong Alley, who has about 8 months of the promotion on his YouTube channel and on Between the Sheets, when we talked about the week in December 1987 when Nick Gulas showed up on set with Christopher Love (Bert Prentice) and had a showdown with Don Fargo, Ken Timbs and Pat himself.

We talk about the promotion’s start, who was in charge and a number of the wrestlers who came in and out of the territory, including Bob Sweetan, Bob Holly, Marcel Pringle, Bad Company, Samu and Kokina (Yokozuna) and others.

There’s also talk about his time in Memphis with Dr. Tom Prichard and Sherri Martel as the Heavenly Bodies, how they got put together, the run’s premature end and the “Dear John” letter Pat read on live Memphis TV when Tom and Sherri left the area.

We also talk to Pat about working with people like Lord Humongous (Jeff Van Camp), Sid Vicious, the Master of Pain (The Undertaker) and how important it was for guys like him to make those guys look like stars.

To wrap up, Pat tells us about his fishing show Set the Hook, how it got started, where you can hear it and also his son’s country music career.

We had a great time talking to Pat and hopefully he will be back on the show with more stories from his time in the business.

The Plot Podcast - Episode 10 - Singing Cowboy Xmas Movies

Gene Autry and “Santa” (Hank Patterson” deliver Xmas presents in The Cowboys and the Indians.

What better way to celebrate the holiday season than looking at two very loosely Christmas-themed singing cowboy pictures?

First, it’s Roy Rogers and “Trail of Robin Hood.” There are no merry men or archery contests, but we do have a turkey shoot in a story about a businessman, his daughter and their nefarious foreman trying to corner the marker on Christmas trees. Leave it to Roy, Trigger and Bullet to put a stop to it.

Then, it’s Gene Autry in “The Cowboys and The Indians.” For 1949, this is a fairly progressive picture about the maltreatment of Natives on reservations, in this case by a villainous and greedy trading post owner. Gene teams with a female doctor and a local tribesman to try and expose the corruption going on. The Christmas stuff doesn’t come until the end when Gene sings one of his famous holiday songs (we won’t spoil which one he sings).

Episode 115 - The Grandaddy

An original 1985 Starrcade VHS tape clam shell. Bought from the pages of PWI.

I’m always happy to welcome back Beau James (@kingofkingsport) back to the show. Just in time for Thanksgiving, we’re going to talk about the Grandaddy of them all, Starrcade. Well, the shows that were held on Thanksgiving by Jim Crockett Promotions, from 1983-1987.

We’re going to go over the cards on all five shows, spotlighting some underrated matches, as well as the ones everyone remembers: Flare for the Gold, The I Quit Match, the scaffold matches and more. We discuss some of the controversies on those shows, be it odd match selections, questionable booking and which show managed to kill two towns and a promotion in one night.

We also talk about the show Beau is running on Thanksgiving weekend in Kingsport and how people can help donate for folks in need this holiday season. If you can’t make it there live, you can donate on their website at https://donations.hungerfirst.org.

Happy holidays to those celebrating. Watch out for that tryptophan.

The Plot Podcast - Episode 9 - BTAS

Batman and the Gray Ghost from BTAS episode “Beware the Gray Ghost.”

The Plot returns with a tribute to Kevin Conroy, who sadly passed away on November 10, 2022 at the age of 66. In our corner of the popular culture universe, he’s best known for being the voice of Batman (and Bruce Wayne) in the DC Animated Universe starting with Batman the Animated Series in 1992 and continued until 2019, encompassing animation, video games and even live action.

So, here’s a short look at some of our favorite BTAS episodes: the origin of the BTAS Riddler (John Glover) in “If You’re So Smart, Why Aren’t You Rich?”, Batman teaming up with his childhood hero (Adam West) in “Beware the Gray Ghost” and an episode with not much Batman, “Showdown,” an Old West tale featuring Jonah Hex (Billy McKinney) versus Ra’s Al Ghul (David Warner) and his son Arkady Duvall (Malcolm McDowell).

The Plot Podcast - Episode 8 - Spooky Seventies Saturday Morning TV

The Original Ghostbusters. No, really. Bob Burns, Larry Storch and Forrest Tucker.

To wrap up Hallowe’en Month at When It Was Cool, let’s look at some spooky 1970s Saturday morning TV shows.

First, the original Ghostbusters from 1975. Spencer (Larry Storch), Tracy the Gorilla (Bob Burns) and Kong (Forrest Tucket) are bumbling detectives fighting vampires, monsters, ghosts and the like. There’s a little bit of Borscht Belt comedy, some vaudeville humor and a lot of silly gags. Some famous character actors show up as bad guys like Ted Knight as a ghost, Bernie Kopell as Dr. Frankenstein and Jim Backus as Eric the Red. If you loved F-Troop, you’d probably enjoy Storch and Tucker here.

Then, after the success of Scooby Doo for Hanna Barbera in the early 1970s, there were quite a number of mystery-solving teens with animal sidekicks and we spotlight a couple of them: The Funky Phantom and Goober and the Ghost Chasers.

Kids, when we say popular culture was always better in the old days, just point to some of these and say “Not so fast.”

Episode 114 - Louisiana Hayride

Al’s new book. Go buy it.

We’re happy to welcome Al Getz (@AlGetzwrestling) back to the show to discuss a variety of topics, but most importantly his new book, Charting the Territories: The 1971-1973 LeRoy McGuirk Oklahoma/Louisiana Wrestling Almanac.

We talk about the process of putting the book together from all of Al Getz’s into the 20+ year history of the territory and the use of his wrestling statistics to look at where people worked on a card and how prominent their feuds were during a particular time. We look at some of the familiar names in the territory, like Bill Watts and Danny Hodge, superstars working there regularly like Dusty Rhodes and the Spoiler and youngsters in the infancy of their careers, like Bob Backlund and Pez Whatley.

Al also talks about his odyssey this year to visit every Major League Baseball park and some of the minor league stadia as well. We learn what state Al visited for the first time, as well as some of the atypical ballpark food he ate during the course of the year.

We wrap with a cursory look at the new Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame ballot which had just been released when we recorded the pod. Rather than discuss individual candidates, we talked about some of the procedural changes implemented this year, increasing the number of votes and the inclusion of many tag teams and how that could effect people’s voting.

The Plot Podcast - Episopde 7 - Ultraviolet (1998)

The Ultraviolet team in their prison vault. Don’t call it a cemetery.

The Plot Podcast in Hallowe’en Month at the When It Was Cool Network goes from tongue in cheek to deadly earnest. We’re joined by Odessa Steps Magazine contributor Justin Jones (@xPrimusPilusx) to discuss one of his all-time favorite TV shows, 1998’s Ultraviolet. The British show, written and directed by Joe Ahearne, stars Jack Davenport, Susannah Harker, Philip Quast and a young Idris Elba as a team trying to fight the good fight against … well, they call them Code V’s or leeches, but those monsters who want our blood to stay alive. We discuss how we both found the show here in the early 2000s, the premise of the show, and what we love about it. Since there are only six episodes, we discuss each one in detail, so spoilers ahoy. We rave about the quality writing and acting on display, some of our favorite scenes and more. It’s a Valentine in October to a program I often describe as “The X-Files and Blade fight Vampires.”

Episode 113 - Fat Pigeons

Morpheus meets Hector Hall. (c) 2022 DC Comics.

Much like the comic itself, our podcast on the first season of the Sandman TV show is finally here. To do so, we’re happy to welcome back AP reporter Ashraf Khalil (@ashrafkhalil) to talk about it. It’s only fitting since Ash read many of those issues by borrowing them off me or reading them in our dorm in college, when the series was being originally published back in the 1990s. We’ll talk about reading the series in real time, the pain of publishing delays, favorite stories and such. Then, we’ll discuss the TV show, what we liked and didn’t like, being faithful to the source material, casting choices in 2022 vs how the characters were written or created 30 years ago, future seasons and more. We also discuss some of Neil Gaiman’s other work adapted to TV, like American Gods and Good Omens.

(1:43:00) We also managed to sneak in some wrestling chat. Ash talked about what he is liking about the two big promotions currently and I mention some of the other stuff I’ve been watching. We also talk about the recent death of Antonio Inoki, some of his matches and his out-of-the-ring notoriety.

At the end, there’s some brief futbol chat, about Egypt not making the upcoming World Cup and the rivalries between African futbol powers.

A shout out to Vintage Phoenix Comics in Bloomington, Indiana, where many issues of Sandman were bought in the 1990s and our friend Victoria who was often along for the comic shop trips back then. Hope you are well, Vic.

The Plot Podcast - Episode 6 - 1960s Spy Shows and ... Creatures?

Martin Landau as Count Zark in The Man From UNCLE’s “The Bat Cave Affair.”

As part of When It Was Cool’s Hallowe’en Month, the pod looks at some of its favorite 1960s spy TV shows and what happens when they run into some creatures. Or do they?

First, we have the Man from UNCLE and the second season episode “The Bat Cave Affair.” What is THRUSH’s “Operation Night Flight” and why does the agent behind it, Count Zark (Martin Landau using his Bela Lugosi impression 30 years before Ed Wood), seem to be dressed as a certain Transylvanian nobleman? Can Napoleon Solo (Robert Vaughn) and Ilya Kuryakin) stop him from grounding the world’s aircrafts?

Next up, it’s the Avengers and the fifth season episode "Never Never Say Die.” When a man hit by a car doesn’t stay dead, it’s up to Steed (Patrick Macnee) and Mrs. Peel (Diana Rigg) to find out how and what does it have to do with the secret government lab run by Professor Frank N. Stone (Christopher Lee)?

Finally, we go full on spy spoof with Get Smart and the first season episode “Weekend Vampire” (not to be confused with the band of a very similar name). When CONTROL agents are being found dead with two puncture marks on their necks, Max (Don Adams) and 99 (Barbara Feldon) are sent to investigate the disgraced scientist Dr. Drago (Martin Kosleck).

We’ll be back soon with a slightly more serious look at spies and the undead in the 1999 British TV show Ultraviolet starring Jack Davenport, Susannah Harker and a young Idris Elba. It’s The X-Files plus Blade vs Vampires in the next episode of the podcast.

Episode 112 - Wowie Zowie

Don Fargo, Rip Tyler and Mike Diamond in “Rip’s Corner” from WOW TV.

We have our first back to back guest, even though it’s been two months and there were also three episodes of the Plot Podcast since then, but we’ve happy to welcome back Kris P Lettuce (@krisplettuce) from the Armstrong Alley You Tube channel to talk more rediscovered old school wrestling.

We start by talking about his upcoming order from his tape source “the Greek” and just what will be on that 100 DVD order, including Windy CIty, WIld Wrestling and wrestling from Montreal and the Maritimes.

Then we discuss some of the wrestling on his channel now, including IWA from Nashville, featuring a young Maxx Payne, Texas Championship Wrestling (including the American Ninja, who we discussed last episode) and WOW, World Organization Wrestling. WOW is easily my favorite promotion of the stuff Kris has uploaded, so we spend a good portion of the show talking about some of the better-known names that worked there, including Bob Holly, Pat Tanaka and Paul Diamond, Bob Sweetan, Jerry Stubbs, Kokina (aka Yokozuna) and more. We also mention how many of these promotions in the late 80s and early 90s had a connection to legendary promoter Nick Gulas.

Also, coming up this month on the Plot Podcast, look for some vampire-themed shows, as part of When IT Was Cool’s Dracula Month. How well do spies and vampires? Tune in and find out.

The Plot - Episode 5 - French New Wave

A looby card for Shoot the Piano Player.

With the recent passing of Jean-Luc Godard, we look at three French New Wave heist films: Shoot the Piano Player, Band of Outsiders and Le Doulos.

We start with a very cursory explanation of the French New Wave, Cahiers du Cinema and the influence of Post WWII gangster films, what we would later call film noir: private eyes, trench coats and fedoras, femmes fatale, chiascuro lighting and so on. (Apologies to all my former film professor for some very brief oversimplifications.)

Shoot the Piano Player (1960) was Truffaut’s second film after The 400 Blows. It’s the story of a piano man with a dark secret, his ne’er-do-brothers, some gangsters and the bar maid that has a crush on the piano man and who also knows his secret. Plenty of humor in this often-dark movie.

Band of Outsiders (1964) is often called Godard’s most accessible film, thanks to its straightforward plot, humor and pop references. Two guys and a girl plan to steal a pile of cash from the villa where the girl Odile (Anna Karina) lives nearly. There’s also the burgeoning love triangle between Odile and the two guys, Franz and Arthur. And a lot of silliness before the robbery, where, of course, things go wrong.

Le Doulos (1962) was one of many crime films made by Jean-Pierre Melville, who is sometimes called “The Godfather of the French New Wave” since he was making films before the Cahiers critics and mentored some of them along the way. Le Doulos was the slang term for a police informant and the question is the film is just who was tipped off the police to the heist being pulled by Maurice and Remy? Was it Silien, the film’s trench coat and fedora wearing gangster, played by perennial French New Wave star Jean-Paul Belmondo? Or was it someone else? You need a score card to keep track of the twists and turns, as the body count grows throughout the picture.

There are of course many other heist films worth checking out. These three are currently streaming on the Criterion Channel and HBO Max and Prime also have a number of French New Wave classics. We wanted to talk about Rififi, but it’s not currently streaming anywhere, so we’re saving that for another day.

The Plot is a co-production of Odessa Steps Magazine and The When It Was Cool Network.

The Plot - Episode 4 - Inspector Clouseau / The Inspector

The Inspector and The Matzoriley Brothers, from The Great De Gualle Stone Operation. (C) 2022 MGM.

In this episode, we look at what happens when a studio makes a sequel without its creator and without its star and its more successful cartoon analog.

In 1968, Mirisch Films decided to make a third Pink Panther without Blake Edwards, Peter Sellers and Henry Mancini. And we got Inspector Clouseau, directod by veteran comedy producer/director Bud Yorkin and starring Alan Arkin, in between making The Russians Are Coming and Catch-22. If every a film was less than the sum of its parts, it’s this film, which just doesn’t work on so many levels. But its an interesting study in what happens when you remove the creators that make something special.

We also take a look at The Inspector, the animated film/tv series that actually preceded the aforementioned film by three years. The second animated spin-off series from the Pink Panther franchise debuted a year after the first Pink Panther cartoon won an Oscar. The Inspector (and his assistant Doux-Doux) are voiced by Pat Harrington Jr and The Commissioner is originally voiced by the recently-departed Larry Storch and later by Paul Frees. There were 34 cartoons eventually made for either the movies or Saturday morning TV, with such great episodes titles as Napoleon Blown Aparte and Toulouse La Trick. Full of traditional cartoon gags like exploding bombs and surrealistic situations, your tolerance for them in 2022 may be determined by your tolerance for comedy French and Spanish accents.

The Plot - Episode 3 - Secret Six / Showcase 43

Introducing the team in Secret Six issue 2. (2) 2022 DC Comics.

We’re back with a new episode of The Plot and it’s back to the spies, this time in comic book form with two topics for discussion

First up is Secret Six, the seven-issue DC Comics from 1968 and 1969. We look at the creation of the book, its fairly obvious inspiration (see Episode 1), the members of the team, their mysterious leader and an issue-by-story description of their missions. We talk about the book’s premature end, the unsolved mystery surrounding Mockingbird and how that was unofficially resolved and how to read it today. (Note: This is about the Silver Age team, not the Gail Simone books of the 2000s.)

And then, it’s Showcase 43, cover dated April 1963, the DC Comics adaptation of Dr. No, the first James Bond movie starring Sean Connery. We look at the comic’s original home, how it got to DC Comics. how were it’s sales since it was published before the movie was released in the US and some of the major and minor changes back to the movie versus the comic. We also touch on, 60 years after being published, it’s quite the rarity in the collector’s world.

Special shout out to comics scribe and font of knowledge Mark Waid for research help. Check out the Irredeemable Kickstarter still going on as this episode debuts. And remember to check out the other podcasts on the When It Was Cool network.

Episode 111 - Let's Go to the Videotape

The American Ninja from Texas Championship Wrestling.

We’re happy to welcome for the first time to the show, Kris P Lettuce (@krisplettuce), the man behind the Armstrong Alley You Tube channel. We discussed the treasure trove of found footage he has been posting on his channel featuring independent wrestling from the 1980s., 1990s and 2000s.

First up, we talked about his channel and the origins of all this footage, including a subject we’ve been talking a lot lately on the show, tape trading. Just how big was the list of footage from which he was choosing?

From there, we talk about a number of short-lived promotions, including: Austin Idol’s 1993 USA Wrestling, the 1987 Alabama promotion World Organization Wrestling, the 1990-91 Texas Championship Wrestling, the 1991 Nashville International Wrestling Alliance, the 1990 Arkansas International Pro Wrestling, The 1990-91 North American Wrestling Assocation/South Atlantic Pro Wrestling and more. There’s a littany of people we mention here: Idol, Junkyard Dog, the Bullet and the other Armstrongs, Bob Holly, Bill Ash, Stunning Steve Austin, Paul Jones, Robert Fuller, Willie the Wrestling Clown and even Nick Gulas.

There’s also chat about Southeastern/Continental, missing and found footage, Ron Wright and Ron’s Championship Wrestling, wrestling fan subcultures, Kris’ new Patreon, wrestling books, what footage he hopes to get next and more.

Note: The next episode of The Plot should feature two spy-themed Silver Age comics and should be out in a week or two. Thanks for listening.

Episode 110 - Million Dollar Bash

The Great American Bash issue from Pro Wrestling Illustrated.

We’re happy to welcome back Mike Sempervive (@sempervive) for another marathon pod. The main focus of the episode is the first Great American Bash in July 1985. We go over the show match-by-match, what was going on for each person at the time going into the show and where things were going after the show on the road to Starrcade 1985. We also talk about the other JCP show that night in Columbus, Georgia. There’s also discussion of both the magazine coverage of the show and the video tape, put out in conjunction with Pro Wrestling Illustrated.

From there, it’s a free for all, as we talk about tape trading, not only in wrestling but also hockey fights and old television shows, running shows in high school gyms and armories, which led to a discussion of the 1993 film Blue Chips, hockey road trips, the usual discussion of 1980s wrestling TV in the Baltimore/Washington area and much more.

As with most people these days, you can’t talk this long without some coughing fits. We tried to edit them out, but may have missed some, so please accept our apologies.

Also, our new podcast The Plot, done with When It Was Cool, now has two episodes:. The first is about the Mission Impossible TV show and the second is about the heist comedy The Lavender Hill Mob. You can find it in this podcast feed or over at the When It Was Cool Website. .

Thanks for listening.

The Plot - Episode 2 - The Lavender Hill Mob / Card Shark

He loves only gold. Henry Holland (Alec Guinness) in The Lavender Hill Mob.

The Plot returns with a look at one of the greatest heist comedies in film history, 1951’s The Lavender Hill Mob., starting Alec Guinness and Stanley Holloway. We discuss the film’s plot, how a mild-mannered bank clerk masterminds a robbery of an armored car full of gold. We also give some background on the film, Ealing Studios, some of the creators behind the scenes and its filming.

We also give a quick shout to the new video game Card Shark, a tale of grifting and card cheating in Pre-Revolutionary France. We hope to have some of the folks behind the game on a future episode of the Winter Palace Podcast.

Thanks for listening. Be sure to listen to the other shows on the When It Was Cool Network.